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Old 08-12-2007, 10:49 AM
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Default Selection for Societal Sanity 1 - Metal Gear Solid 3: Virtuous Mission through Ocelot

Moving along to week two of Fun Club. This week's topic, inspired by the fact that the Metal Gear Solid 4 gameplay demo was incredible and I need to catch up with the series, is:

Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater/Subsistence
Konami/Kojima Pro | PS2 | Tactical Stealth Action | 2004

We'll break this one into three pieces: part one, here, covers Operation Virtuous Mission through the Ocelot fight. Part two will encompass the caves through the battle with The End. And part three will cover everything from The End to... the end.

The ball is in your court, gentle participants. I will weigh in... later.
  #2  
Old 08-12-2007, 10:51 AM
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Well, I think the first question is obviously:

Which version will you be playing? Snake Eater or Subsistence.

I prefer the camera system in Subsistence, so that's the one I'll be playing.
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Old 08-12-2007, 10:51 AM
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I like MGS1!
I like MGS2!
This is my first time playing MGS.
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Old 08-12-2007, 10:57 AM
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Going to try to pick up Subsistence tomorrow. This should be interesting.
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Old 08-12-2007, 11:02 AM
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Is it cool to play MGS3 without having played through MGS2?
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Old 08-12-2007, 11:02 AM
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I'm very excited for this because A.) I've been looking for a reason to play through the game again, and B.) I bought Subsistence and never played through the main game. I'm interested in seeing how much the new camera improves things (Note: The things were already VERY GOOD.).
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Old 08-12-2007, 11:06 AM
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I'm definitely playing Subsistence. The bigger, more organic environments coupled with the loss of the Soliton radar make the traditional camera wholly unsuited for the task of letting you play the game without hating the hell out of it.

I'm ridiculously slow even with the free camera. I try to play stealthily and with as few kills as possible, laying low as much as possible... so just sneaking around Rassvet to find Sokolov took me a full hour.

Also, I've just learned that you're supposed to shoot the kerotans... with your gun. I thought you were supposed to wait until the second playthrough and use a camera. I feel like a 'tard, and deserve harshin'.
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Old 08-12-2007, 11:08 AM
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which one is better for someone who has never played any of them before?
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Old 08-12-2007, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivam View Post
which one is better for someone who has never played any of them before?
Subsistence. It's the original game, but improved. Plus, if you're a Metal Gear purist, you can play the game with its original camera system.

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I'm definitely playing Subsistence. The bigger, more organic environments coupled with the loss of the Soliton radar make the traditional camera wholly unsuited for the task of letting you play the game without hating the hell out of it.
While this is true, I loved the loss of the MGS1/2 radar. I spent most of my MGS2 game looking at a tiny map, controlling a dot. It was like some crazy sequel to Adventure.
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Old 08-12-2007, 11:37 AM
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"Never played any of them."

any, meaning anything with the words metal and gear in the title together.
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Old 08-12-2007, 11:42 AM
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Default I'm playing Subsistence which I own for MG1and2.

I started the series with MGS3, and felt the Soliton radar made MS1 and 2 nearly too easy. It also made screwing with the guards more fun, so there's the other side to it.

Virtuous Mission is essentially your tutorial, but it's also a breeze for MGS vets, and (thankfully) largely skippable. The only part vets might want to stop and read about is CQC, but the better moves aren't really explained, you'll want to crack open the manual or ask here about those.

Btw, have fun with the sniper rifle while it lasts, because unless I've missed something, you'll be going without it for quite awhile after the Virtuous Mission ends.
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Old 08-12-2007, 11:42 AM
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I'm definitely playing Subsistence. For one thing, it's the only version I own.

I also have the infinity paint and the stealth, and this'll be the first time I'll play through the main game with either. I'm torn over whether to go through without killing or killing everybody in my path.
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Old 08-12-2007, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parish View Post
Also, I've just learned that you're supposed to shoot the kerotans... with your gun. I thought you were supposed to wait until the second playthrough and use a camera. I feel like a 'tard, and deserve harshin'.
Don't worry Parish. You only get a reward for finding ALL of them, and I guarantee there are Karotans you will never find.
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Old 08-12-2007, 11:46 AM
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People who relied so heavily on the old radar that they were navigating the dot rather than controlling Snake or Raiden only have themselves to blame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringworm View Post
Is it cool to play MGS3 without having played through MGS2?
As you probably know, MGS3's story is chronologically the first in the series. All the same, there are many, many references and callbacks to characters and plot threads from MGS1 and 2. So, you won't be getting the full picture, but you probably won't end up confused, either.
  #15  
Old 08-12-2007, 11:48 AM
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Hmm... Maybe this will get me to finally play through the copy of Subsistence I've had lying around for a year. I kept getting caught trying to sneak into the base and gave it up for a while, and never came back to it.
  #16  
Old 08-12-2007, 11:50 AM
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I'm playing Subsistence, since I haven't tried it with the new camera yet. I'm pretty sure I got all the secrets in the original version, though. Kerotan, face paint, tsuchinoko, so I guess that's nothing to worry about. Took forever, though, and I didn't even really use any of the things you get for doing it.
  #17  
Old 08-12-2007, 11:54 AM
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I don't know if it was fixed in Subsistence, but in the original release of MGS3, there was a bug of sorts regarding the Kerotans. Basically, if you shot them all, you ended the game with the "Kerotan" rank and unlocked the Stealth Camouflage, but then you could never get any rank but Kerotan on subsequent playthroughs.

So, on top of it being a hassle in the first place, there's a chance that hunting down every one of them could hopelessly skew your endgame appraisal. Earning the Stealth Camouflage by getting through the game without being found is both more fun and more rewarding.
  #18  
Old 08-12-2007, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobservo View Post
While this is true, I loved the loss of the MGS1/2 radar. I spent most of my MGS2 game looking at a tiny map, controlling a dot. It was like some crazy sequel to Adventure.
Oh, I agree, definitely. This is really my first time through MGS3, and I'm really impressed but how much more substantial it feels. Not knowing where the guards are every second down to which way they're facing adds so much more tension to the game... which is why I spend so long taking those last few steps to Sokolov. I'm reluctant to rely too much on even the sonar and motion detector. (I'd like to use the AP sensor, but I'm playing this on PS3 and the sensor makes use of a last-gen feature.)

Sneaking in MGS3 really feels like it has consequences -- although this is actually somewhat to the game's detriment at times, because crawling around through the grass and waiting to stun some dude is exhausting. I can't play this game in large stretches because it wears me out.

In fact, I think I'm going to proclaim this a two-week entry, because I don't think one week is going to be enough time for me to finish. Also, part one now goes up to the Ocelot fight, because Virtuous Mission is kinda short.
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Old 08-12-2007, 12:00 PM
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God, this first radio conversation with The Boss is long. I guess Kojima's up to his old tricks again. I assume this is setting the standard for the rest of the game already. GREAT.
  #20  
Old 08-12-2007, 12:00 PM
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We dragged the hell out of Virtuous Mission back when it comprised the MGS3 demo, though. You'd be surprised how much mileage you can get out of messing with the bridge physics or how many approaches you can take to dealing to Sokolov's guards.
  #21  
Old 08-12-2007, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishi View Post
People who relied so heavily on the old radar that they were navigating the dot rather than controlling Snake or Raiden only have themselves to blame.



As you probably know, MGS3's story is chronologically the first in the series. All the same, there are many, many references and callbacks to characters and plot threads from MGS1 and 2. So, you won't be getting the full picture, but you probably won't end up confused, either.
Yes, but you also won't be nearly as confused when you make your way to MGS2. Or, at least, some of the MGS2 twists will make more sense.

Also, MGS3 has, arguably, the most polished game engine of the series.
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Old 08-12-2007, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parish View Post
I'm ridiculously slow even with the free camera. I try to play stealthily and with as few kills as possible, laying low as much as possible... so just sneaking around Rassvet to find Sokolov took me a full hour.
The first time I played the game, I did exactly this. The second time, emboldened by already having finished it, I used CQC far more, slitting just abotu every throat I came across. It was awesome.

(PROTIP: If you're close to a guard and standing, pushing forward in their direction on the control stick and hitting Circle at the same time will make Snake grab them and throw their face into the dirt, immediately knocking them out. It can be a life saver.)
  #23  
Old 08-12-2007, 12:06 PM
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I never tried to avoid alerting the guards, which would require either no killing or some tedious clean-up once you're done. I prefer stealth action to stealth non-action; I avoid being seen long enough to get the kill, and hope no one notices the kill.

(PROTIP: If you do the CQC grapple, just holding Circle lightly that is, and then press L3, you'll interrogate the guard with your knife. This is usually pointless, yielding only a 'american capitalist pig' or a password to Metal Gear Ac!d, but this can sometimes yield useful info, such as armory locations, hidden tips, and even radio frequencies you can use to call off alerts)
  #24  
Old 08-12-2007, 12:09 PM
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What I enjoy is being able to play the game entirely differently than I have before. There are so many ways to approach each situation...
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Old 08-12-2007, 12:36 PM
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I started hating MGS3 near the end. I did pick up Subsistence when it dropped in price, and I will soon be replaying it. Only for you guys.
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Old 08-12-2007, 12:53 PM
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Yeah, unlike MGS1 and 2 I really think 3 needs to have two weeks. I could probably just tear apart the game with the Patriot but I'd rather try less fighting and more real stealth or something. Save that for if I get too frustrated or pissed off, at least it won't end in my guaranteed failure with the limited reinforcements this time.
  #27  
Old 08-12-2007, 01:17 PM
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Default Snake Eater

I've only played the original Snake Eater Version, which is OK. I'm not big for stealth games, but I love MGS bosses. The sniper battle and final boss are especially great. I also loved the camo system, although screwing around in menus can drag. Another gripe I have here is spending like 3 years sneaking up on a dude and are all ready to put him in a sleeper but you screw up the button press and just sucker punch him in the head. Stupid. Why isn't that a separate button????
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Old 08-12-2007, 01:22 PM
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Yeah, I just finished Virtuous Mission, and I'm going to go through with no kills. Of course, the Stealth makes this obscenely easy, but hell, I took the time to hunt those kerotans to get it, so I'm gonna frickin' use it.
  #29  
Old 08-12-2007, 01:33 PM
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So I guess I'm not the only one who didn't buy MSG3 because they were waiting for it to be a Greatest Hit, only to learn that Subsistence was coming out, eventually buying that discounted but not playing it yet either?

Fine, I'll go play it now.
  #30  
Old 08-12-2007, 01:44 PM
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Given how the online was a whole third of the incentive to get Subsistence, they really should just release an edited version with the online portion cut out and make it GH. Also, now that I booted up the game I saw my first Subsistence run took me 21:38:36. I saved about 3 or 4 hours off of my original Snake Eater playthrough!

I forgot about the Tsuchinoko thing, I should probably look for those too for this playthrough.
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