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Shin Megami Tensei: New Reincarnation of the Thread (Actually Featuring Dante From The Devil May Cry Series)
- Thread starter Zef
- Start date
Made it to Ginza. That's an expensive trip and then when I get to the end of it there's just even more expensive stores there?!
I thought I had to come here to kill someone but I can't seem to figure out where they're lurking...
I thought I had to come here to kill someone but I can't seem to figure out where they're lurking...
Have to choose between Walter and Jonathan and I don't actually have any idea where I stand. I think I might be more chaotic but who can say...
Made it through the two alternate worlds (they were both awful) but when I tried to advance the neutral storyline in the Expanse it wouldn't let me.
Probably because I didn't do one of the numerous random things I was supposed to. I flipped a coin and went with Preserve.
Now I'm stuck in the maze of the Monochrome Forest. This is by far the worst dungeon in this game so far.
Probably because I didn't do one of the numerous random things I was supposed to. I flipped a coin and went with Preserve.
Now I'm stuck in the maze of the Monochrome Forest. This is by far the worst dungeon in this game so far.
I don't think there are any prerequesites like this.
It's all about whether or not your points put you in a place that's just chaotic or just lawful enough that you final selection with The White can swing you into the Neutral sweet spot. So, if you're slightly chaotic, you want to pick the lawful choice, then you're on the neutral route. If you're slightly lawful, you make the chaotic choice, and that puts you on the neutral route. If you're already neutral when you meet The White, paradoxically both answers will kick you out of neutral and into Chaos or Law. (Maybe there's a sweetspot within the sweetspot where you can be neutral and neither choice will kick you out, but if so that's an even narrower path to walk and probably near impossible to achieve without a guide.) Annoying system!
So, it's possible that the opposite choice could have put you into neutral, depending on where you were. (For example, if you were lawful and went with the lawful choice, obviously you'll continue being lawful. However, if you were lawful and choose chaos... that might have been what would have put you onto neutral.)
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I checked. and there is definitely a list of quests you have to do.
That article is not written very well.
Those quests are part of the Neutral endgame (where you make the world a better place before taking down the final boss so you have The Power of Friendship on your side, etc. etc.), not a requirement to get into Neutral.
The advice about how to get onto Neutral is also wrong and will definitely not work...
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This is the best English language description of this I can find, providing the concrete numbers behind the system.
I was wrong about the idea that there might be a perfectly neutral enough value that the final question doesn't lock you in. You absolutely want to avoid being perfectly neutral when the final choice comes. It's really convoluted...
Looking for this, I see that in English language discussions apparently a game of telephone occurred where a kind of playground rumor about needing to complete Challenge Quests got passed around as true and apparently was repeated even in outlets like IGN, but it's not true. They are useful because some have choices that let you manage your alignment, and so some guides say "you should do X quest and answer Y way" but that's just to get you in the right point range. You don't have to do them for the Neutral ending. It's just an extremely opaque arithmetic problem, and CQs offer one way to add or substract to get you in the right range.
Those quests are part of the Neutral endgame (where you make the world a better place before taking down the final boss so you have The Power of Friendship on your side, etc. etc.), not a requirement to get into Neutral.
The advice about how to get onto Neutral is also wrong and will definitely not work...
edit:
This is the best English language description of this I can find, providing the concrete numbers behind the system.
I was wrong about the idea that there might be a perfectly neutral enough value that the final question doesn't lock you in. You absolutely want to avoid being perfectly neutral when the final choice comes. It's really convoluted...
Looking for this, I see that in English language discussions apparently a game of telephone occurred where a kind of playground rumor about needing to complete Challenge Quests got passed around as true and apparently was repeated even in outlets like IGN, but it's not true. They are useful because some have choices that let you manage your alignment, and so some guides say "you should do X quest and answer Y way" but that's just to get you in the right point range. You don't have to do them for the Neutral ending. It's just an extremely opaque arithmetic problem, and CQs offer one way to add or substract to get you in the right range.
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In a sense, there are some optional elements (not even proper quests, per se) that can impact your alignment without you even realizing, and which can be sprung on you by surprise. The most obvious that comes to mind is the suicidal woman in Ikebukuro--if you're just exploring for its own sake, like you usually do in an RPG, you'll open the door to her room, and, bam, forced Law or Chaos responses, and you can't just back out and leave the choice for later. You can only really avoid her by knowing about her in advance, and remembering exactly which room to avoid in that station, otherwise, that's some extra alignment points you'll have to account for in your tally, if you even know about the point system at all.
(Though, honestly, the fact that shutting down Pluto, which Jonathan himself wanted to do so you could all go home, or reopening the portal to your world after beating Kenji, which Walter also wanted to do so you could all go home, give you Chaos or Law points respectively is just cruel. I never thought pushing a button to advance the plot would make me side with Lucifer but here we are. And since you need to be "more than a bit Law/Chaos" for the Monochrome Forest to pull you into Neutral, then you also need to be the opposite alignment while doing the Alternate Tokyos, so that Pluto and Kenji put you where you want to be first. Augh.)
(Though, honestly, the fact that shutting down Pluto, which Jonathan himself wanted to do so you could all go home, or reopening the portal to your world after beating Kenji, which Walter also wanted to do so you could all go home, give you Chaos or Law points respectively is just cruel. I never thought pushing a button to advance the plot would make me side with Lucifer but here we are. And since you need to be "more than a bit Law/Chaos" for the Monochrome Forest to pull you into Neutral, then you also need to be the opposite alignment while doing the Alternate Tokyos, so that Pluto and Kenji put you where you want to be first. Augh.)
Both of the choices are gross. And I sorta just flipped a coin and went w/ Jonathan. Bugs me that I get locked in by choices that often make no sense throughout the game and then when it comes to the choice int he Expanse it doesn't actually let you make the choice you want if you didn't do it right all the up til then.
I guess I'll just power through til the end.
I guess I'll just power through til the end.
Yeah the system really sucks, especially because what it means to do it right is so counterintuitive, since you're also not allowed to be Neutral if you planned your whole game around being perfectly Neutral.
There's ways to read this as an interesting design choice I guess (punishing anyone who is too perfectly wishy-washy), but I don't think the execution works at all.
It certainly has slowed my enthusiasm down.
Especially when you base your DIRECT SEQUEL off of it.
R.R. Bigman
Coolest Guy
Hope you like what ending being a decent person gets you.
FTR, my first time, I played naturally and ended up Law, probably because I was too polite and shook too many hands and believed in collaboration and teamwork too much. Which, OK, I'll get the exclusive demons, get the... ending, and then start over. Then I hunted down a Neutral guide and followed it meticulously working back from the Alignment Lock so I'd keep tally of my choices.
Which, as said above, is counterintuitive and anti-humanistic, and I maintain that it reflects a wishy-washy hero rather than balanced one (Nocturne does this much better in its Demon vs Freedom "neutral" paths). But I would only ever do this for a second or third walkthrough, I'd never let it get in the way of my initial one.
Which, as said above, is counterintuitive and anti-humanistic, and I maintain that it reflects a wishy-washy hero rather than balanced one (Nocturne does this much better in its Demon vs Freedom "neutral" paths). But I would only ever do this for a second or third walkthrough, I'd never let it get in the way of my initial one.
I think I was trying to be balanced and see both sides and then had to pick something at the end. I wonder what would have happened if I had chosen Chaos? Would it have kicked me into Neutral. The guy at the bar kept saying I was polite...
Oh well, I beat it. Might get back to it some day but not today!
Oh well, I beat it. Might get back to it some day but not today!
What are people's opinions here about Soul Hackers on the 3DS? I've skimmed some reviews of it on Metacritic, and the impression I get is that it's very similar to Super Famicom-era SMT, but with a cyberpunk setting and story on top of it. I guess I'm curious about how the combat, dungeon crawling, and fusion stuff holds up now considering it's a 24 year old game.
Soul Hackers is like the missing link between the SFC games and Strange Journey. I liked it, but Strange Journey is maybe my favorite SMT game, and if you prefer the games with third person exploration and press turns, it might not be as enjoyable.
Most of the dungeons are normal buildings or spaces in the virtual world that are supposed to be inviting, so they're not too hard to navigate as first person mazes go. Enemies are also fairly weak for most of the game, and between those two things, it's pretty easy, for better or worse. The difficulty does ramp up later on, though. The 3DS port has options that make movement and combat lightning fast, so it's a breezy playthrough. Demon fusion is less complicated than in the modern games, as skill inheritance just happens without any choice or random element, so you're mostly just fusing demons you've outgrown to get more up to date ones, like in the old games, but you'll occasionally be able to get a demon with a good skill they wouldn't normally have. Demons don't level up, but you have to build their loyalty by giving them commands that fit their personalities, or just giving them gifts. A demon with low loyalty will disobey commands they don't like. Also, although alignment doesn't affect the story, demons with clashing alignments can't be used together in the same party.
For what it's worth, the art, music and story are excellent. Less excellent was a bug I encountered where treasure chests would be empty before I opened them. I don't know what caused that, but I had to start over and replay the first hour or so of the game to fix it, so watch out for that if you do decide to play it.
Most of the dungeons are normal buildings or spaces in the virtual world that are supposed to be inviting, so they're not too hard to navigate as first person mazes go. Enemies are also fairly weak for most of the game, and between those two things, it's pretty easy, for better or worse. The difficulty does ramp up later on, though. The 3DS port has options that make movement and combat lightning fast, so it's a breezy playthrough. Demon fusion is less complicated than in the modern games, as skill inheritance just happens without any choice or random element, so you're mostly just fusing demons you've outgrown to get more up to date ones, like in the old games, but you'll occasionally be able to get a demon with a good skill they wouldn't normally have. Demons don't level up, but you have to build their loyalty by giving them commands that fit their personalities, or just giving them gifts. A demon with low loyalty will disobey commands they don't like. Also, although alignment doesn't affect the story, demons with clashing alignments can't be used together in the same party.
For what it's worth, the art, music and story are excellent. Less excellent was a bug I encountered where treasure chests would be empty before I opened them. I don't know what caused that, but I had to start over and replay the first hour or so of the game to fix it, so watch out for that if you do decide to play it.
After many years of waiting, an english translation patch for the original Famicom version of Megami Tensei II is finally here! I imagine most hardcore Megaten fans (is there any other type?) have played the Super Famicom version that is part of Kyuyaku Megami Tensei, but I've always preferred to play the original versions of games if possible, so I've been waiting and looking forward to this day. And as a bonus, the translation comes with a translation of the game's manual as well!
Pajaro Pete
(He/Himbo)
Atlus is teasing something Soul Hackers-related. In very typical Atlus fashion, it's countdowns to countdowns so we aren't clear what it is just yet. Atlus West has retweeted it so perhaps it'll be something you might actually care about instead of a big nothing sandwich.
Pajaro Pete
(He/Himbo)
i will actually be a bit disappointed if it's just a port and Aion turns out to be a Atlus Remaster Mystery Girl
Pajaro Pete
(He/Himbo)
so far the teasers have shown three characters
a protagonist-like character with a kind of overdesigned jacket and just the ugliest goddamn shoes
A MYSTERY CHARACTER wearing a white suit, blue shirt, and yellow tie
a woman who appears to have been stabbed
not to make snap judgements but it appears that atlus is gonna, as they say, atlus.
a protagonist-like character with a kind of overdesigned jacket and just the ugliest goddamn shoes
A MYSTERY CHARACTER wearing a white suit, blue shirt, and yellow tie
a woman who appears to have been stabbed
not to make snap judgements but it appears that atlus is gonna, as they say, atlus.
This looks like it's going to generate a fairly significant blowback from SMT oldheads, such as they are, just because of the kind of tonality and aesthetic that it seems to profess. Shirow Miwa on character designs very strongly evokes his earlier work with 7th Dragon and where that work eventually landed through its duration; Eiji Ishida directing probably more readily calls to mind his work on Tokyo Mirage Sessions than earlier output like Nocturne and Strange Journey in people's associations. In absence of the potential individual faults that may manifest with this game in time, I'm pretty into what they're showing just in its general sensibilities. Soul Hackers as a "brand" of one game from 25 years ago was inextricable from its era-specific stylings, so it could not remain as is unless the aim was a conscious period piece; this game maintains that spirit and just applies it to contemporary trends and visual culture, while maintaining the shared premise of yon demonfolk vis-à-vis youths in the modern age and setting. And the cast for what it is seems to veer a little older than usual too, at least for me mediating issues of sexualization should that come to pass, along with being another break from convention like the (non-silent?) leading woman is. Hoping for the best!
Pajaro Pete
(He/Himbo)
maybe some folks need more than "features a female protagonist" to sell them on a title
was this necessary?